awesome movies that pass the bechdel test

[intertribal]

This article, on film schools teaching screen writers not to write female characters who talk to each other about something other than a man, inspired me to make a list of movies that do pass the Bechdel Test.  Then a theme developed among the movies that I came up with.

Candyman: Helen and Bernadette. 

Topics of conversation: Their research.  Poverty and housing developments and the way the city is divided up to maintain class segregation.  

Mulholland Drive: Betty and Rita.

Topics of conversation: Rita's identity.  Betty's auditions.  A car crash, a murder mystery.

Picnic at Hanging Rock: Everyone (there are very few male characters).

Topics of conversation: Each other, the scenery, existentialism, class, disappearing into fucking rocks.

Silent Hill: Rose, Cybil, Dahlia, Christabella.  Arguably Sharon, arguably Alyssa, arguably the Demon.

Topics of conversation: A missing child.  A haunted town.  Keeping the community safe.  Religion.  Demons.  Motherhood.

28 Days Later: Selena and Hannah.

Topics of conversation: Taking drugs to not care about being raped.  The infected.  Survival. 

Suspiria: Suzy and Sarah.

Topics of conversation: Strange developments at the dance school.  The weird teachers.  Dead students.  Their investigation of the mystery.

Yes, in horror movies, to quote one Bechdel Test reviewer, "they have more important things to talk about."  Another point is how frequently women are featured in horror movies, often alongside other women.  I suspect the ratio of women to men ends up being a lot higher in horror movies compared to movies in other genres, even in unlikelier scenarios like Drag Me To Hell (female antagonist, female protagonist, male bystander - a formula that's very common in J- and K-horror), although here I focused on female friendship/partnership. 

To some extent this is as B.S.-y final girl stuff, but as these movies indicate, not always.  Maybe horror filmmakers just like seeing women on the screen.  But seriously, in a world of all-male casts, where are they in horror?  Few and far between.  I think of, like, The Sixth Sense, and The Thing.  And The Sixth Sense just has two male protagonists, but an array of female characters.  2001: A Space Odyssey?  Predator?  But get ghosts and dark magic involved (as opposed to vicious killer aliens), and it's a woman's game.  Interesting that even for the "masculine" subgenres of horror (aliens, serial killers), the most authoritative movies have female leads: Alien, Silence of the Lambs.

Anyway, I'm sure plenty of people have written about this, but I really haven't read enough "scholarly review" of horror movies.

Comments

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

disappearing into the fucking rock

Loved that movie.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Me too! It was a movie my mother had seen as a grad student that made an impression on her, along with Juliet of the Spirits and Kwaidan. So she showed them to me.

[barry-king.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. And I need to put my vote in for Babette's feast. It pushes Bechtel out of the way to get at the heart of the poem of life.

That reminds me. Off-topic, but I still need to see Walkabout. Any thoughts?

[squirrel-monkey.livejournal.com]

Pan's Labyrinth is awesome in that regard -- there are several women with their own agendas, and they talk to each other quite a bit!

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

I forgot about that one! And it's my favorite movie. *shakes head*

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Yeah; unfortunately I have an issue with Pan's Labyrinth that keeps me from enjoying it at all. But overall I think horror can actually be more open to the idea of women as three-dimensional human characters than other genres.

[squirrel-monkey.livejournal.com]

Do you mind telling me what issue? I have a couple too, so I was curious.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

The celebration of death, mainly, is what ultimately threw me out of the movie and left me with a very gross feeling. This is sort of a personal reaction stemming from my father dying when I was ten - I have issues with the presentation of death. I don't necessarily fault the movie for this, it just means it doesn't click with me at all.

But, to be honest, I wasn't enjoying it even before then. I think maybe it got so much hype that it was a let-down when I finally saw it? I'm also not a big fan of the fairytale technique? I don't know, but I basically have never "gotten" the appeal of Pan's Labyrinth. I remember saying this once on a film discussion blog and someone replied saying "maybe you just don't like good movies." Heh.

[squirrel-monkey.livejournal.com]

I agree that it was overhyped. I wanted it to be more complex, I think, and I also wanted the mother to be less of a dying device. I liked it well enough, but I only saw it once and have no desire to do so again even when it's on TV. Overall, I thought that del Toro's The Devil's Backbone was more nuanced, although no less morbid.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's one of those movies I felt that I "should have" liked (like True Grit!), especially given the political subtext. I just didn't. I really, really like The Devil's Backbone though. That was a paradigm-shifting moment in horror for me (particularly the opening speech about what makes a ghost and the symbolism of the undetonated bomb - very influential).

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

The fairy tale aspect (unsurprisingly) did do it for me, but you both raise very good criticisms. I clearly need to see The Devil's Backbone.

particularly the opening speech about what makes a ghost and the symbolism of the undetonated bomb - very influential

Okay, I really need to see that. Especially since I am kicking around a fantasy where there are a set of undetonated bombs that are also ghosts.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Haha, yeah, you probably should. I've never known anyone not to like The Devil's Backbone. Interestingly enough, it doesn't pass the Bechdel test!

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. Pan's Labyrinth didn't work for me, either.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Why for you?

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Well, I had trouble understanding the rules of the imagined world/magical world that she goes off to. Different things seemed possible at different times, and I felt like I was being manipulated by this unfairly. That was one thing.

Then, I found the adults in the movie terrifying and cruel in ways that seemed inexplicable and gratuitous--which made me wonder if I was "reading" the movie right. It seemed implausibly horrible, for real life--which made me think, well, maybe this is supposed to be stylized, then, and not realistic. But if that was the case, then I wasn't sure what the message was that the stylization was trying to tell me.

But I have to also say that I was very, very tired when I saw it, so my comprehension levels were probably very low. I should probably give it another chance... except my initial impression makes me not want to.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Those are not issues that I would have come up with, but I do hear you on your second point. I sort of felt like none of the characters were real, actually, and too cardboardy/two-dimensional, but I think that's an issue that I have with a lot of fairytale-like movies.

I've seen it twice, once in film class and once with my mom, and I'm done with it.

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Thank you for bringing this up again (I think you have brought it up before). This is one of those topics I want to actually explore, but my tired or easily distracted brain wanders away from too often.

But get ghosts and dark magic involved (as opposed to vicious killer aliens), and it's a woman's game.

That's something interesting I hadn't thought of before. Technological horror being gendered male - I can think of the game Portal and possibly The Stepford Wives as possible exceptions (though the antagonists in the latter are male and the protagonist in the former, while female, never speaks. Also, women other than the protagonist in each are actually AIs and not flesh and blood women).

Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I skipped a few thoughts there - from spooky magic = female characters with agency and interesting things to do on screen, through the traditional magic=emotional=female / technological (or aliens explained by technology)=rational=male to where I started thinking of technological horror that also passes the Bechtel test.

Re: Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, for sure. Techno horror always reminds me first and foremost of "I have no mouth and I must scream," which is so very masculine - of course Japan has merged this somewhat with ghosts, but I don't think the likes of Phone really count as technological.

Re: Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Ugh, yeah. I think I hate that story the most because as much as I hate the man I think it's really good, and I want Harlan Ellison to be as overrated all the time as I think he is (an asshole who writes like an asshole)most of the time.

Take this as the idle outside speculation it is, but the critters hiding behind Phone or Ringu strike me as being really traditional tropes used in modern context (even if I called it right, it's not meant as a dig. I love bringing things forward, and I could just be ignorant on this matter, I am no expert of Japanese culture or monsters, just a fan). But I get what you're saying in re J-Horror's use of technology; it's usually the ghost in the machine, not the machine being ghostly.

Re: Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

It's actually the only thing by Ellison I've read, and I think it does succeed in being genuinely horrific. Plenty of assholes are good writers.

No yeah, exactly. "it's usually the ghost in the machine, not the machine being ghostly" is the perfect way to put it.

Re: Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

I've only read a few of his other stories, but I had the misfortune to know what a smarmy bastard the man was before I ever read him, and so when I do read him, I hear his voice smarming me the story, and it just puts me off of him. I hear his tone and his miserableness in everything of his that I have read, and I fail to get past it.

Re: Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

I understand that - I heard about it before reading "I have no mouth" too, so when I got to the point of the only female character being tasked to have sex with everyone I was like, "no surprise there," but the end saved the story for me.

Re: Disappearing into the Fucking Rocks

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can't take that story away from him.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a pet topic.

It's not really that surprising - I mean, ghosts and dark magic are sort of branded "soft" horror, "wispy" horror if you will, and also less real than aliens and serial killers (could be chalked up to women being hysterical, etc.). An exception/in-between-er: Lovecraft stuff. I mean, does In The Mouth of Madness really count as an alien movie? I guess there is plenty of room for masculinity in the Batshit Psycho subgenre.

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a pet topic.
One that I enjoy visiting, to be certain.

Lovecraft stuff. I mean, does In The Mouth of Madness really count as an alien movie? I guess there is plenty of room for masculinity in the Batshit Psycho subgenre.

That's an interesting thought, too. One for which I can't think of anything more profound to say, but will think on as long as concentration holds.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Or maybe we should just call this the Sam Neill subgenre, given Event Horizon.



Love that guy.

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

New Icon Fodder.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Tell me you've seen In The Mouth of Madness?

Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Of course! It has been a while, though. And New Hampshire does emphatically not have any black Russian Orthodox churches that I am aware of.

Maybe around Keane...

Re: Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

ICON! It's so beautiful!

I believe it's on Watch Instantly now? I just love its mania, and the part where they're driving to Keane and the woman keeps passing the bicyclist, and then the children running in silence.

Re: Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

That's right, it does take place around Keane. That is the creepy part of my native soil.

Re: Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Does it? LOL, I actually just said that because I assumed that's what you were referencing in your earlier comment ("maybe around Keane"), and I'd forgotten what the town name really was (Hobb's End, it turns out).

Re: Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Ah, yeah. It's funny; as a horror fan, I get to see all sorts of portrayals of Lovecraft country by people in California who came from anyplace but. Hobb's End? Really?

It's like the early episodes of Fringe, passing New Haven off as Boston and saying there's a Route 12 in Middletown (where I live and no route 12 runs).

Re: Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

No one does this with Nebraska! Well, except for Stephen King, but I forgive him "Children of the Corn" because now it's been reclaimed as a football slogan. LOL.

Re: Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

That's kind of awesome.

[wendigomountain.livejournal.com]

By the Bechdel test, I think Ginger Snaps 1-3 would apply.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

I've never seen any of the Ginger Snaps movies, actually. But a lot of horror movies qualify, yeah. I think even Halloween does.

[wendigomountain.livejournal.com]

They really aren't too shabby. The first one is probably what Diablo Cody ripped off for Jennifer's Body. The third one, I liked, because it was in the Canadian wilderness circa 1750. So, not only was it a period piece, but also people were getting munched by werewolves.

[wendigomountain.livejournal.com]

Ooh! Ooh! The Descent!

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Yes! Good catch.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

I strongly considered including that one, but I got antsy because so much of the actual dispute between the leads is about one of them cheating with the other one's husband. I do think it passes the test, but that aspect of The Descent counted against it, this time.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

Women are always seen as more wild, more magical, more otherworldly, more natural--less civilized, less rational, less human, and less cultural. You put a man in their place, and suddenly everything is less creepy. Maybe still scary, but not so much creepy. Or the man is put into the conflict of whether or not being scared threatens his masculinity, and that's too complicated for most.

That's what I'd say off the top of my head, haven't thought about it really.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I suspect you're right. The woman in and of herself adds to the creepiness, and definitely fits the prototypical horror protagonist who thinks they're going crazy and has to do crazy things to survive.

I'm trying to think of horror movies that have male protagonists and aren't sci fi and for one male protags are mostly cops, but sometimes a big deal is made out of them (the rational character) going crazy, like the transformation itself is creepy.