I was ok with Animal Farm, but...

[intertribal]

Yann Martel:  I needed to find two animals that might represent the Jews. So trading on positive stereotypes, donkeys are held to be stubborn, they’ve endured, in a sense. Jews are historically have been stubborn in a sense, they’ve held onto their culture, to their religion, despite centuries of discrimination. At the same time, we hold monkeys to be clever, to be nimble. Well, historically, Jews have proven themselves to be exceptionally nimble and clever, they’ve adapted to all different kinds of circumstances, all kinds of different countries, cultures, and also historically, they’ve contributed enormously, disproportionately to the arts and sciences.  So trading on those positive stereotypes, I chose, well, here, how can I represent Jews? Well, here, I’ll represent them as this combination, these two animals, monkeys and donkeys. It could also be that the donkey is sort of a representation of the body and monkey the representation of the mind of Jews.

David Sexton:  What is one to say? Perhaps, to be kind, that Martel, not Jewish himself incidentally, is just not very bright.

Yann Martel:  If he says that of me, I wonder what he feels about Art Spiegelman in Maus. In Maus the Jews are characterised as mice. But were the Jews mouse-like in the Warsaw ghetto uprising? I wonder how he feels about that characterisation.

Hey hey hey hey,or: we could not use different animal species to symbolize different groups of people, especially when you're using stereotypical animal traits to match up with stereotypical human group traits.  We could not reduce huge groups of God's creatures to one or two sweeping adjectives.

Just a thought!

Comments

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Okay, prepare for a lot of emotional irrationality here. Just to warn you.

I want to point out that a lot of things eat mice. Even wolves eat mice. I am pretty positive that dogs eat mice. But yeah, I'm sure he is just starting with hey, they called Jews vermin, so I'll follow that and make cats Nazis. But I feel like given the way people read Nazis (as the ultimate evil incarnate blah blah... something I don't agree with, but something I know people think), making an entire species of animal represent something that weighty... bothers me. I think if he did, you know, the whole thing with various types of birds or lizards or something I wouldn't have this reaction, because nobody thinks, "oh yeah, goddamn sparrows, I fucking hate those bastards, they probably ARE Nazis." But I guess I feel that there are people that would think that about cats. I'm not sure if there is any animal that is as easily coded as evil in Western culture as a cat. Maybe like... a hyena? Yeah, maybe a hyena/jackal type thing. But that's not exactly common. I guess people see snakes as evil too, for Biblical reasons, although it is rare for a snake to come up in pop culture. Unless it's Britney Spears dancing with one.

I mean, they say it semi-jokingly, but I have heard a lot of people say "cats are evil," and there are so many movies where cats are treated like shit that can get chainsawed in half (whereas when a dog dies, it's typically a noble death a la I Am Legend, or something that is meant to really elicit emotion because the Dog Was Such a Good Guy). So that's why I think it's taking a shortcut to "good" and "evil," and why I think it's lazy. Partly because I really do feel that's how cats are coded in Western culture, and hell, if you want to challenge stereotypes, make your Nazis penguins. Nobody thinks penguins are evil. And once again, I do get that he's coming from the starting point of the Jews = vermin thing. But I fear that the end result is yet another example of cats being evil bastards that should be drowned.

This is a pretty crazy reaction on my part, I know. But I once wrote a story dedicated to the cats that were burned with the witches in Salem (and as I recall I wanted the Church to like... apologize for killing cats?). So... yeah.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

Dude, most people love cats. They're all cute and fuzzy and shit. Now, snakes--there is an animal that gets a lot of shit. And eats mice, for that matter. Probably better to make the Nazis cats than mice, though, b/c at least cats have the possibility of being good. Snakes are just like, pure evil.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

oops, I meant "cats than snakes," haha.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

And if you don't think cats have the possibility of being good, I'm pretty sure I can come up with a bunch of examples of positive portrayals of cats, but I really don't want to do something that pointless, so please don't make me.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

LOL, that's okay. I know that there are positive portrayals (like the Aristocats!), but I still think it's overall a more negative portrayal than a positive one - especially within the Tom and Jerry motif. You get cats on their own (like in "Cats") and there's a better chance of a positive portrayal. But as soon as other animals enter the picture, the chance that the cat winds up as the antagonist skyrockets.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

Oh god. Who cares?

(btw, I hate Tom & Jerry, but it's nothing to do with cats. It's just that it makes me uncomfortable, like most American comedies.)

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Hey, I warned you that it's emotional irrationality. I don't even know why I care so much at this point, but I always have.

The reason I hated Tom & Jerry was the cat thing, although it really wouldn't work with any animal combination. See the rest of Looney Toons (is that how you spell it?).

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Man, I really really disagree with you on the "most people love cats" thing, but maybe it's just the people that hate them that really make their opinions known, and the silent majority doesn't think they're evil.

Yeah, you're probably right - better cats than snakes. I still say better, like, eagles than cats. Because everybody loves eagles and they eat mice. I think.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

People devote whole stores to how much they love cats. With cats in them. People make movies like The Aristocats and The Lion King. People post thousands of pictures of cute kittens. People make lolcats. There are cat posters, cat figurines, cat supplies and luxuries, cat hotels for chrissake (and if that isn't exorbitant ridiculousness, I don't know what is). I don't really know much about Cats, but I don't think they were all villains there. There are crazy cat ladies. I'm pretty sure there are as many cat supporters as dog supporters, they just have like this bitter feud that I don't get. I like cats and dogs. I'm more used to cats than dogs, but I recognize that it's not really based on anything but that.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Oh, see, I would draw the line (first I wrote "draw the lion") at Lion King. Lions are a whole different issue. Lions are noble. Richard III and libraries and all. Aristocats, though, yes. And although LOLcats are often not very funny and sort of eye-roll-y, I do think they have been good for cat-human relationships. Uh... or something. But I do think there's a difference between "hey, cat owners exist and love cats" and "wow, cats get killed a lot in movies." Cuz of course there are cat owners who love cats (and might I add, "cat lady" usually implies crazy spinster? there are no "crazy dog ladies"). In movies, if you've got cats vs. dogs, dogs are usually the good guys, because they're like the good macho animal.

But yes, a nice thing about some Disney movies (like Aristocats and... Oliver? Was that a Disney movie?) is that they have them all working together against a horrible human entity.

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

Also, while I'm sure there are a hundred reasons why this is an invalid statistic (I can think of a few), fwiw: "bad OR evil cats" gets 30,500,000 google results, and "good cats" gets 70,000,000. I think half of them are lolcats either way. :P