oh, American (Swiss?) cruelty!

[intertribal]

The God Save Roman Polanski Movement is in full swing:

Jack Lang, a former French culture minister, said that for Europeans the development showed that the American system of justice had run amok.

While Mr. Polanski had committed “a grave crime,” Mr. Lang said, “he is a great creator and artist, and there’s a sentiment here that pursuing someone for a crime committed 30 years ago, in which the victim has decided to drop the case, is unreasonable, a kind of judicial lynching. In Europe, it would be unimaginable to punish someone in a situation like this.

“Sometimes the American justice system shows an excess of formalism,” Mr. Lang said, “like an infernal machine that advances inexorably and blindly. It sometimes lacks equity and humanity.”

And they're going to plead their case to Hillary?  This Hillary?  Good fucking luck.  I hope she roasts them like marshmallows.  And I don't even like Hillary.

Comments

[royinpink.livejournal.com]

I'm not arguing for Roman Polanski's supporters. I'm just saying, as a matter of principle, that is how I feel about individual cases. The sort of, 'I realized it was all wrong, that everything had to change, and that that change had to start with me.'

I really don't think jail achieves education. Are you kidding me? They 'learn their lesson'? I'm not so naive as to think that criminals really learn shit from being put in shit conditions after, often, having lived in shit conditions their entire lives (Since, you know, the entire prison system is a way of re-enforcing racial and economic inequality, as well). So what's the point? Just deprive them of even more freedom, starve their souls? Sounds fantastic. Seriously, if people aren't endangering society, why do you want them locked up? Hell, why don't we want to honestly deal with people? What's wrong with actually paying them some attention? To hell with lessons and rehabs and punishments. This reminds me of a song I have, "Aw judge, your damn laws, the good people don't need 'em and the bad people don't follow 'em, so what use are they?" We've all learned force, violence, coercion, and revenge are the only ways to accomplish things--it's only a matter of who gets to use them and how. How would we ever expect people to learn to be different when we teach them using the same methods?

Yes, exactly, and there are much better--and more effective, and more humane--forms of communal enforcement than state prison systems.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

But the change can't stop after that one case, either. I also don't think Polanski has actually been screwed over by any system (he screws the system over), but I guess that's a different issue.

Um, no, jail in and of itself doesn't achieve education. I didn't say that. That's why I said rehab should be part of prison - as in, education IN prison. Some systems have it, most don't (or at least don't make it available or required for everyone in prison, which defeats the purpose).

But I don't think most people who are endangering society will sign up for education if it's a choice, which is why there needs to be some sort of enforcement measure. Should it necessarily be putting them in a brick building surrounded by wire fences? No. But it needs to be enforced somehow (shunning is not effective either). It could mean house arrest, if we figure out an effective way to do it. It could mean public stocks, though that doesn't seem very humane either. But it can't just be "salvation here if you want it, otherwise go home and go back to your life" because not everyone will take salvation. They might just keep on killing people. Prison is just an easy way to make somebody do something, but unfortunately they're not presently used to make anybody do anything that would help any situation. Enforcement, however, is necessary.

If they're not endangering society - if they're not taking away someone else's rights - they shouldn't be breaking the law. Period. If there are truly laws that punish people who are not endangering society/taking away other people's rights, then those laws should be stricken, imo.

I also think that society needs to constantly and seriously debate why people are breaking its laws. Maybe we all need more truth commissions. Maybe there's something wrong with the law, or something wrong with society, or some aspect of some societal system needs to be improved. That's what's not happening enough. If there's something wrong with the law, get rid of it. If there's something wrong with society, fix it and good luck. But as long as the law stands, it needs to be enforced.

What do you mean by dealing honestly with them? What are these other forms of communal enforcement? Would they be applicable in a large state, or do they only work in small communities? Would it be a community-by-community system? What if the community chooses a more inhumane or arbitrary system?